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Typerider
Contributing Member
Posts: 46
Location: NC
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 Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Concealed Weapon Preferences |
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So I was over on Tim Wieneke's great thread on the hazards of going into vacant properties and several posters mentioned that they carry concealed weapons.
I'd like to find out what type of concealed weapons are most preferred and why?...
Wheel guns or semi-autos with big clips? What caliber and why? What rig is preferred for carry and why? Where do you like to carry and why? Do you go to the range regularly and why or why not? And so on and so forth. If I've forgotten to ask anything else relevant please add more.
And hey, if you'd like to bring up some legal issues that would be great, too, because hey - LLs are increasingly becoming 'targets' (ha ha) in more ways than one. |
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flipper101
Distinguished BP Moderator Alumnus
Posts: 1876
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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It could be that this belongs in the off topic area?  |
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TimWieneke
BiggerPockets Fanatical Poster
Posts: 483
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm a collecter and have owned/bought/sold about 25 different handguns over the years. Of all the ones I've used, my favorite used to be a Springfiled 1911 .45 but sold it and went to a S&W Sigma 9mm. I like the double action and having 16 rounds rather than 7. Something about the sigma fits my hand better too. I may change again - HK has a pistol out that looks phenomenal. I also highly recommend the Ruger P series of semiautomatic pistols. I put about 5,000 rounds through my Ruger with only 1 malfunction and that was on a reload I made myself. |
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AdrianG
BiggerPockets Forum Newbie
Posts: 18
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| First of all, why would you put yourself in a position where u would need a gun to enter a vacant property? Not saying nothing will happen but I try not to go to vacant properties/war zones (if I go there) after 12pm the latest, I have been there before where everyone inside was sleeping and I surprise them quick enough so that cant pull anything and I never go alone. But not to jack this thread, I carry a baseball bat in the trunk and I have a gun license and I have been a blackbelt since I was about 15 so I am well qualified/prepared. |
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Typerider
Contributing Member
Posts: 46
Location: NC
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Tim: I like my Glock 9 because of the increased magazine capacity. However, I have read some 'experts' that say unless you practice with your semi on a regular basis you are better off with the simplicity of a wheel gun.
AdrianG: after you spend some time reading the many useful posts all over this site, you will see that some of us rent to low-income tenants where we are actively involved in cash rent collections, delivering eviction notices, chasing drug dealers and other undesirables off property, doing repairs at odd hours, etc. Last year, for instance, I was unexpectedly confronted by a loose pit bull who wanted a serious piece of me before I dashed inside and called the doggie police. If you feel your martial arts training and baseball bat are up to those potential threats, great; I don't.
As to your question of why I go inside vacant properties, most REOs and foreclosures and 'don't wanters' that I target are vacant. I go into enough that my Realtor just gives me the lock-box code rather than waste his time any more. Over half of these have evidence of some squatter living within.
There's an old saying among motorcycle riders that goes like this: "Dress for the fall, not the ride."
I find this sage advice for other areas of my life, too. |
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AdrianG
BiggerPockets Forum Newbie
Posts: 18
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I wasn't trying to tell anyone not to protect yourself. I have a few properties in the south side of chicago in the ghetto so I completely understand the need to protect yourself. but there are smart ways to do it is all I am saying, and the gun I like best is a glock 21. Well whatever anyone can do to stay safe is fine by me. |
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TimWieneke
BiggerPockets Fanatical Poster
Posts: 483
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| AdrianG wrote: | | First of all, why would you put yourself in a position where u would need a gun to enter a vacant property? |
I can get your point here. There is no real estate in the world risking your life over. That being said, about 6 or 7 years ago I was staying with my then wife in my parents $950,000 house in a luxury neighborhood when it was broken into in the middle of the night. Luckily police did arrive before anyting happened, but it was the longest 5 minutes of my life. And yes, I was armed. For me, being armed has nothing to do with real estate. However, as I said before it is smart taking extra care when you go behind other people's closed doors.
Typerider - fyi, baseball bat is about all you're allowed in the People's Republic of Cook County.
Last edited by TimWieneke on Thu May 08, 2008 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AdrianG
BiggerPockets Forum Newbie
Posts: 18
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Typerider - fyi, baseball bat is about all you're allowed in the People's Republic of Cook County. |
Exactly, City of Chicago DOES NOT allow anyone to have hand guns in there homes unless its grandfathered in and even thats a problem. So yeah protect yourself as best as u can. But when it comes to investment properties theres no reason why anyone should be going to low income neighborhoods at times when it could be dangerous. I am not telling anyone how to do your thing but come on knock out the property before 11am-12pm so its not even something to think about. I am usually at low income areas around 7-9 am so that I dont have to worry about any problems 99% of the time.
Hmmm 1 hour traffic or my life being gone or injuries......... Which would you like to keep??? |
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mmcmillan
BiggerPockets Forum Newbie
Posts: 8
Location: Frisco
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: My thoughts |
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As a female in the industry, I think it is very important to be able to protect yourself. I see it all the time in the paper, women agents in open houses, usually always vacant, being killed by predators. It can always happen even if you are cautious.
I personally have had a CCW since I was 21 and in the industry. I carry a 380 Walters. It's a bit heavy for concealment but its perfect for my hand. If I feel that it is too excessive such as working with new people, open houses, I typically have a double blade push knife on me. Knowing self defense tactics is always important as well.
You just can never be to sure, and being in an industry where it is easy to get someone alone, and not really knowing who you are working for, it is important to protect yourself.
So make sure your daughters and wives know how to use your firearms! |
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MikeOH
BiggerPockets Voracious Poster
Posts: 1714
Location: OH
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | But when it comes to investment properties theres no reason why anyone should be going to low income neighborhoods at times when it could be dangerous. |
If I knew when one of the many drug dealer scumbags that I have evicted will appear and want revenge, then I wouldn't go there at that time of day. If I knew when a tenant I evicted and made homeless would be at Walmart, then I wouldn't go there at that time. If I knew when some unstable mail delivery guy was going to go postal at McDonalds, I would pack my lunch that day. Unfortunately, I don't get the schedule of dangerous times and places, so I carry my gun anytime I'm working. When you're working in low-income neighborhoods, any time could be dangerous. You never know when some hopped up meth addict will be walking down the street and decide that he needs your money.
I carry a Baretta 3032 (32 cal) Tomcat with frangible rounds for added safety in apartment buildings and other close quarters. It is a semi-automatic, 8 shot pistol, double action on the first shot. It is remarkably accurate for such a small gun. The only thing I don't like about it is that it's a little difficult to decock after you've fired that first shot (due to the small hammer). It has a very unusual barrel which tilts up, allowing the chambered round to be removed and I usually acutate that before attempting to decock it.
I would like to carry something with a little more power, but it is difficult to conceal anything larger and still work with it (doing the maintenance, climbing on roofs, etc). I also like the reliability of the Baretta, which has never misfired and is very well built. My wife and I both have Baretta trap guns and I have found their performance to be outstanding.
I wear mine with a belt type holster (on my side during the winter, under a hooded sweatshirt and a little farther back during the summer, under a hawaiian shirt. My wife and I do go to the range occassionally. We usually make a day of it, shooting some targets and then dinner. What could be better?
| Quote: | | And hey, if you'd like to bring up some legal issues that would be great |
Legal issues? There are plenty of them. However, as they used to say in the military "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"!
Mike |
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Typerider
Contributing Member
Posts: 46
Location: NC
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Tim and AdrianG: I was born in Cook County but sooo glad I left at six years old! I did not realize a law-abiding citizen could not keep a gun in his home in Chicago. Unbelievable in this time and age.
Yes, as you stated, the best time to visit low-income rentals is before noon.
Hey nmcmillan - thanks for posting. I honestly believe that communities that allow law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons are safer. I wish that law would apply to automatic knives because I haven't yet found a folding knife that opens as easily. |
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Typerider
Contributing Member
Posts: 46
Location: NC
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent point about frangible rounds, MikeOH. No one wants a slug to go through a wall into another apartment.
Yeah, the legal issues get complicated in this overly-litigious society of ours. I read somewhere that even if a shooting is perfectly righteous, one can expect to spend at least ten grand in legal fees for defense.
Hey - can you deduct those trips to the range? You should be able to, maybe continuing education or something?.... |
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flipper101
Distinguished BP Moderator Alumnus
Posts: 1876
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mike-WOW!
I was going to go all legal as usual here, until I read what you wrote:
| Quote: | | Legal issues? There are plenty of them. However, as they used to say in the military "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"! |
 Sure made me think! Matter of fact my wife often goes on smaller job estimates in our contracting business and even in the affluent area's we work, that "behind closed doors" comment is giving me the creeps!
Time to re think here! Thanks!
O.K. back to the Law Library..... |
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TimWieneke
BiggerPockets Fanatical Poster
Posts: 483
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Not sure what you can legally do in California James but I would certainly get her some pepper spray and basic defense training. Preferably something taught by women (male instructers don't have the same center of gravity) and not overly stylistic. I've known women who really like Krav Maga - developed by Israel for it's military. Also never hurts to have a dog. |
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flipper101
Distinguished BP Moderator Alumnus
Posts: 1876
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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She has the pepper spray. So far no estimators have been abducted or harmed in our demographics, buy one never knows.
This just got me thinking is all.
Thanks.. |
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MikeOH
BiggerPockets Voracious Poster
Posts: 1714
Location: OH
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This just got me thinking is all. |
From what I can tell, California is a "may issue" state, meaning that you may be allowed to get a concealed carry permit IF your local sheriff allows it. So, you could certainly check with your sheriff. In addition, tasers appear to be legal in the People's Republic of California, except in municipal buildings; at public meetings; and in sterile areas of the airport. These are the same tasers that the police use and they even have smaller tasers that fit in a woman's purse.
| Quote: | | I read somewhere that even if a shooting is perfectly righteous, one can expect to spend at least ten grand in legal fees for defense. |
I agree, and I'd much rather write a check for $10,000 than be dead!
Mike |
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Primo_Coach
BiggerPockets Active Poster
Posts: 165
Location: Oakton, VA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Guns |
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| I like the Glock 19. Of course we hope we never have to use a gun, but if the day ever comes I will be prepared. |
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flipper101
Distinguished BP Moderator Alumnus
Posts: 1876
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Mike, Tasers are legal here and I am headed out to buy TWO!
Have a Glock at home and my Blackwater buddy has a few nice toys, to say the least!
| Quote: | | I read somewhere that even if a shooting is perfectly righteous, one can expect to spend at least ten grand in legal fees for defense. |
If one had to shoot someone in an empty building in "self defense" they could more likely be looking at more close to 50-100 grand in legal defense costs in some situations.
10 grand will maybe get you to the start of the trial phase if that.
But like Mike said:
| Quote: | | "it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"! |
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TimWieneke
BiggerPockets Fanatical Poster
Posts: 483
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| flipper101 wrote: |
If one had to shoot someone in an empty building in "self defense" they could more likely be looking at more close to 50-100 grand in legal defense costs in some situations.
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Another reason to LLC out your properties from your other investment activities. I wonder - would general liability insurance provide coverage for an incident like this? |
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flipper101
Distinguished BP Moderator Alumnus
Posts: 1876
Location: Pleasanton, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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What about scoping potential deals where you have NO interest in the private property and NO one was there to witness why someone shot a hobo holding a fork? Not a good situation in my opinion. Or even in the case of a property one did own, same thing.
An LLC would limit any liability in NO way in relation to shooting someone!
The initial charges would be assault with a deadly weapon and or attempted murder, or murder. It's a criminal matter and LLC is a mute factor.
Could be a factor in the case of a civil suit after criminal trial, in which the family member of the fork holding hobo came after the shooter.
NO LIABILITY insurance will cover shooting someone in self defense or otherwise AND probably BEST NOT to ask your carrier!!!
Tough topic here! There is an inherent risk in REI and landlording in tougher neighborhoods. |
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