4BR SFH Pool Home STR near Disney, is $4K/month NET revenue realistic?

[David Sanders]

I'd really like to hear from people who have a 4 bed pool house near Disney if $48K per year net revenue is realistic. By net I mean take home pay after direct booking fees, including cleaning. But not including utilities, HOA fees, etc.

I do plan on doing moderate, functional theming and a game/theater room. Looking at areas very close to Disney, like Windsor Hills, Emerald Island, or Indian Creek, etc. $4K per month is kinda my magic number for making this work for me, so I'd love to hear your specific numbers. Feel free to PM numbers to me if you would prefer.

[JD Martin]

Quote from @David Sanders:

I'd really like to hear from people who have a 4 bed pool house near Disney if $48K per year net revenue is realistic. By net I mean take home pay after direct booking fees, including cleaning. But not including utilities, HOA fees, etc.

I do plan on doing moderate, functional theming and a game/theater room. Looking at areas very close to Disney, like Windsor Hills, Emerald Island, or Indian Creek, etc. $4K per month is kinda my magic number for making this work for me, so I'd love to hear your specific numbers. Feel free to PM numbers to me if you would prefer.

 No. Not right now at least. I have a 4/3 3k SF pool home on a lake 10 minutes from Disney in 4 corners, and I would be in serious sense trouble right now if I needed this house to net anything, much less 4k per month. My gross monthly average since November is about $3k per month, and my net outside of my mortgage is about $2k per month. September and October were total duds and last summer was only about 50% booked. 

We have serious oversaturation here right now. If you pay all cash you might see $2k per month net for the year. If you have a note you will be subsidizing the house right now. Ok if you use it sometimes, like I do, but not very good as an investment. I am across from the new Windsor Cay resort in Cagans Crossing for reference, and I have a nice place with all 5 star reviews.

[Michael Baum]

I agree with @JD Martin 100% @David Sanders. There is no way you will net 4k.

I don't have any dogs in the fight but I have read a bunch from JD and @Shawn McCormick about the area and even without looking at data know that it won't work.

[David Sanders]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @David Sanders:

I'd really like to hear from people who have a 4 bed pool house near Disney if $48K per year net revenue is realistic. By net I mean take home pay after direct booking fees, including cleaning. But not including utilities, HOA fees, etc.

I do plan on doing moderate, functional theming and a game/theater room. Looking at areas very close to Disney, like Windsor Hills, Emerald Island, or Indian Creek, etc. $4K per month is kinda my magic number for making this work for me, so I'd love to hear your specific numbers. Feel free to PM numbers to me if you would prefer.

 No. Not right now at least. I have a 4/3 3k SF pool home on a lake 10 minutes from Disney in 4 corners, and I would be in serious sense trouble right now if I needed this house to net anything, much less 4k per month. My gross monthly average since November is about $3k per month, and my net outside of my mortgage is about $2k per month. September and October were total duds and last summer was only about 50% booked. 

We have serious oversaturation here right now. If you pay all cash you might see $2k per month net for the year. If you have a note you will be subsidizing the house right now. Ok if you use it sometimes, like I do, but not very good as an investment. I am across from the new Windsor Cay resort in Cagans Crossing for reference, and I have a nice place with all 5 star reviews.

 Sorry, "net" was a poor choice of word. I meant net revenue, not net profit. But I think you still answered my question, I belive you're annual revenue is roughly $36K? 

$4K per month is what I anticipate my monthly expenses to be, with mortgage, utilities, etc. I'm just looking for a break even property.

[JD Martin]

Quote from @David Sanders:

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @David Sanders:

I'd really like to hear from people who have a 4 bed pool house near Disney if $48K per year net revenue is realistic. By net I mean take home pay after direct booking fees, including cleaning. But not including utilities, HOA fees, etc.

I do plan on doing moderate, functional theming and a game/theater room. Looking at areas very close to Disney, like Windsor Hills, Emerald Island, or Indian Creek, etc. $4K per month is kinda my magic number for making this work for me, so I'd love to hear your specific numbers. Feel free to PM numbers to me if you would prefer.

 No. Not right now at least. I have a 4/3 3k SF pool home on a lake 10 minutes from Disney in 4 corners, and I would be in serious sense trouble right now if I needed this house to net anything, much less 4k per month. My gross monthly average since November is about $3k per month, and my net outside of my mortgage is about $2k per month. September and October were total duds and last summer was only about 50% booked. 

We have serious oversaturation here right now. If you pay all cash you might see $2k per month net for the year. If you have a note you will be subsidizing the house right now. Ok if you use it sometimes, like I do, but not very good as an investment. I am across from the new Windsor Cay resort in Cagans Crossing for reference, and I have a nice place with all 5 star reviews.

 Sorry, "net" was a poor choice of word. I meant net revenue, not net profit. But I think you still answered my question, I belive you're annual revenue is roughly $36K? 

$4K per month is what I anticipate my monthly expenses to be, with mortgage, utilities, etc. I'm just looking for a break even property.

 With a mortgage, unless you put down significant money, your expenses are going to be a lot higher than 4k for a 4/3 pool home. Outside of my mortgage - principal and interest -, here are my expenses factored monthly:

Insurance: 300

Taxes: 410

HOA: 51

Water: 55

Electric: 300

Lawn care: 100

Pool & caretaker fee: 220

Internet & TV: 100

Pest control: 25

STR state license: 15

That's $1500 or so right there. All of that is independent of one-off maintenance costs - for example, trimming my palms costs $100 a couple of times per year. Door lock, detector batteries, other consumables, replacement of damaged or disappearing items like pool towels and linens, replacing blown out screens (I spent over a grand just on screens last year though we did have a freak huge hail storm). I haven't even factored in repairs because I do a lot of those myself when I go down and stay in January and February. 

Last year, which was not a good year, I grossed just under $20k and I used the property about 3 months total doing some rehab and improvements; if I had rented out during that time I would have made another maybe 7-9 grand so let's call it 30 grand gross. My expenses not including mortgage were $33,100. I had a couple of bigger capital expenses - had to replace the refrigerator and an entire queen mattress/box spring set in one of the rooms, and I added a few things - fencing and some landscaping - but everything else was pretty normal stuff. 

It doesn't bother me to lose some money on my place because I use it, I like it, and I'm working towards higher rates with some of the improvements, but I can afford the loss. If I needed this place to break even I would have sold it already. 

[Nathan M kiefer]

Great response and something I think most people dont consider. Str has elusion that it's money maker or break even, great to highlight the fact that break even most likely comes with no mortgage and even then hope you don't have any capital improvements that are needed. 

we work our strs the same way 

[John Underwood]

Quote from @Nathan M kiefer:

Great response and something I think most people dont consider. Str has elusion that it's money maker or break even, great to highlight the fact that break even most likely comes with no mortgage and even then hope you don't have any capital improvements that are needed. 

we work our strs the same way 

A great reason to not have all your eggs in the STR basket. I have many more LTR that cash flow really well. These help me weather a storm with low STR occupancy numbers like many are facing across the country.
Higher insurance rates, STR permit fees, labor costs for repairs and cleaning, regime fees (for condos) make running a profitable STR even more difficult. 

[Nathan M kiefer]

Quote from @John Underwood:

Quote from @Nathan M kiefer:

Great response and something I think most people dont consider. Str has elusion that it's money maker or break even, great to highlight the fact that break even most likely comes with no mortgage and even then hope you don't have any capital improvements that are needed. 

we work our strs the same way 

A great reason to not have all your eggs in the STR basket. I have many more LTR that cash flow really well. These help me weather a storm with low STR occupancy numbers like many are facing across the country.
Higher insurance rates, STR permit fees, labor costs for repairs and cleaning, regime fees (for condos) make running a profitable STR even more difficult. 

I get it and have 18 ltrs

[John Underwood]

Quote from @Nathan M kiefer:

Quote from @John Underwood:

Quote from @Nathan M kiefer:

Great response and something I think most people dont consider. Str has elusion that it's money maker or break even, great to highlight the fact that break even most likely comes with no mortgage and even then hope you don't have any capital improvements that are needed. 

we work our strs the same way 

A great reason to not have all your eggs in the STR basket. I have many more LTR that cash flow really well. These help me weather a storm with low STR occupancy numbers like many are facing across the country.
Higher insurance rates, STR permit fees, labor costs for repairs and cleaning, regime fees (for condos) make running a profitable STR even more difficult. 

I get it and have 18 ltrs

That is great!

[David Sanders]

I appreciate all the insight and for the most part I do agree with you all on this being the typical experience with STR's. However it seems to me like the units that are themed really well do significantly better than others. From my research, a well themed unit can easily bring twice the nightly rent of a lower end, same size house and the occupancy is higher as well.

I know themeing is expensive, but I was planning on doing that myself (I own an artisan construction company). I'm not just talking matching bed spreads with a wall mural, but more like a castle bed that you can walk into with a slide, for example. That's what I refer to as more "functional" theming.

Honestly I'm not looking to buy this as just an investment, I want it as my own vacation place for my family, but I'd like the net costs to be as low as possible and I'd like for it to be a long term investment if possible. and if it could make money, that would be a super bonus.

[Shawn McCormick]

@David Sanders Good insight from @JD Martin. I do believe for what you clarified from your original post that breaking even is okay and you'll be using it for personal use that you can do this. 

I always start off clients in the resort style communities rather than trying to make a go at it in a 'regular' community. You mentioned a couple, but most of them start single family homes at 5 beds, so not sure of your budget, but that will open up several more opportunities. Windsor Hills is a great choice, Emerald Island will do well also. Both of those properties are older and may present opportunities to get in at a lower cost since you are willing to do the updates yourself.

I would suggest if you are going to go with more moderate theming, a larger house will suite you better. Think that the parents need a primary bedroom, that leaves 3 for kids. Which way do you go? boys or girls, toddlers or teens, scary or imaginative. The more bedrooms you have, the more risks you can take without alientating a family with all boys (princes beds) or that are all still young (star wars). Bigger homes just perform better here for this reason. 

Hope this helps a bit, happy to dive a little deeper with you if you want and maybe have one of my PM's run some numbers for you based on actual bookings and data, not just airdna etc. 

Best of luck!

[JD Martin]

Quote from @John Underwood:

Quote from @Nathan M kiefer:

Great response and something I think most people dont consider. Str has elusion that it's money maker or break even, great to highlight the fact that break even most likely comes with no mortgage and even then hope you don't have any capital improvements that are needed. 

we work our strs the same way 

A great reason to not have all your eggs in the STR basket. I have many more LTR that cash flow really well. These help me weather a storm with low STR occupancy numbers like many are facing across the country.
Higher insurance rates, STR permit fees, labor costs for repairs and cleaning, regime fees (for condos) make running a profitable STR even more difficult. 

 As do I!

[Alice Horn]

Quote from @David Sanders:

I appreciate all the insight and for the most part I do agree with you all on this being the typical experience with STR's. However it seems to me like the units that are themed really well do significantly better than others. From my research, a well themed unit can easily bring twice the nightly rent of a lower end, same size house and the occupancy is higher as well.

I know themeing is expensive, but I was planning on doing that myself (I own an artisan construction company). I'm not just talking matching bed spreads with a wall mural, but more like a castle bed that you can walk into with a slide, for example. That's what I refer to as more "functional" theming.

Honestly I'm not looking to buy this as just an investment, I want it as my own vacation place for my family, but I'd like the net costs to be as low as possible and I'd like for it to be a long term investment if possible. and if it could make money, that would be a super bonus.

@David Sanders thanks for clarifying on the theming. We would consider a “walk-in castle bed with a slide” to be highly themed. That will make all the difference in the rates. We don’t have any good examples of 4 bedrooms with that type of theming, but a nicely themed 5-6 bedroom in Emerald Island or WH should gross anywhere between $55k-$70k, maybe more. That gets you closer to your goal of $48k net profit (after commission, but before expenses) if I understand correctly. Happy to run some numbers on specific homes if that helps - shoot me a DM!

[Alex F.]

We have a 4-bedroom home near Disney - the home is well-themed and very close to Disney.  It does very well and should end the year right between 60-70K gross rev with great occupancy.  But this IS a very competitive market....This is a good article on some of these markets with a huge supply:  https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

Here is our Disney home:

Last year, we primarily received guests from Airbnb and, this year, from Booking.com. This is our only property where we could never 'climb up' the rankings in VRBO, so we received 0 guests from VRBO. This still puzzling.....The direct bookings from repeat guests are slowly growing.

Booking.com is hard to deal with, but we seem to get good overseas guests that stay for longer.  

[David Sanders]

Quote from @Alex F.:

We have a 4-bedroom home near Disney - the home is well-themed and very close to Disney.  It does very well and should end the year right between 60-70K gross rev with great occupancy.  But this IS a very competitive market....This is a good article on some of these markets with a huge supply:  https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

Here is our Disney home:

Last year, we primarily received guests from Airbnb and, this year, from Booking.com. This is our only property where we could never 'climb up' the rankings in VRBO, so we received 0 guests from VRBO. This still puzzling.....The direct bookings from repeat guests are slowly growing.

Booking.com is hard to deal with, but we seem to get good overseas guests that stay for longer.  

Well that is encouraging to hear. This is in Storey Lake? I thought they only had 5+ BR houses. Or is this one of their townhouses? 

Not trying to steal your ideas, but would you be willing to send me a couple example pictures of the extent of your theming? 

[Alex F.]

Yep - It is in Storey Lake - 4 bedroom.  Ours is a townhouse, so I shared a wall with someone else.  I think a lot of them are the 5+ BR houses.  Here's our listing:

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/606577680390071886

When we were searching for something to do, we also saw many of the larger homes dedicating a single room to a game room—an arcade, a pool table,etc.  

[Danae Pitcher]

@David Sanders I just sold a home in Emerald Island which is a great location, close to Disney - it's an older development so the costs are lower and the homes are less.  My buyer is going to theme the home out and update it and will do very well when it is all said and done.  You are absolutely correct in your assumption that theming and a game room will make a difference.  I would maybe not go for Indian Creek, as a lot of that development is now owner occupied.  Windsor Hills is another excellent choice, but the homes are more expensive there.  Another tip is to pay close attention to the pool area.  Ideally you don't want it backing onto a rear neighbor and if you can get a home with a covered patio area along with the pool, guests love that.  

[Andrew B.]

Quote from @Alex F.:

We have a 4-bedroom home near Disney - the home is well-themed and very close to Disney.  It does very well and should end the year right between 60-70K gross rev with great occupancy.  But this IS a very competitive market....This is a good article on some of these markets with a huge supply:  https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

Here is our Disney home:

Last year, we primarily received guests from Airbnb and, this year, from Booking.com. This is our only property where we could never 'climb up' the rankings in VRBO, so we received 0 guests from VRBO. This still puzzling.....The direct bookings from repeat guests are slowly growing.

Booking.com is hard to deal with, but we seem to get good overseas guests that stay for longer.  

Great occupancy rate, congrats! We get a lot from booking.com, but there’s also a lot of strategic bookers, who will book multiple places and then cancel at last minute, it screws everything up with the other OTA’s algorithm. 

[Andrew B.]

Quote from @Alex F.:

Yep - It is in Storey Lake - 4 bedroom.  Ours is a townhouse, so I shared a wall with someone else.  I think a lot of them are the 5+ BR houses.  Here's our listing:

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/606577680390071886

When we were searching for something to do, we also saw many of the larger homes dedicating a single room to a game room—an arcade, a pool table,etc.  

These homes pretty much all have examples of games rooms, enjoy! 
https://book.swankyvacay.com/search

[JD Martin]

Quote from @Andrew Betts:

Quote from @Alex F.:

We have a 4-bedroom home near Disney - the home is well-themed and very close to Disney.  It does very well and should end the year right between 60-70K gross rev with great occupancy.  But this IS a very competitive market....This is a good article on some of these markets with a huge supply:  https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

Here is our Disney home:

Last year, we primarily received guests from Airbnb and, this year, from Booking.com. This is our only property where we could never 'climb up' the rankings in VRBO, so we received 0 guests from VRBO. This still puzzling.....The direct bookings from repeat guests are slowly growing.

Booking.com is hard to deal with, but we seem to get good overseas guests that stay for longer.  

Great occupancy rate, congrats! We get a lot from booking.com, but there’s also a lot of strategic bookers, who will book multiple places and then cancel at last minute, it screws everything up with the other OTA’s algorithm. 

 Nice place! Something I don't understand after I looked at your listing - how are you fully booked with no vacancies in September and October? September is a super dead month, maybe even deader than May. 

[Nathan M kiefer]

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @Andrew Betts:

Quote from @Alex F.:

We have a 4-bedroom home near Disney - the home is well-themed and very close to Disney.  It does very well and should end the year right between 60-70K gross rev with great occupancy.  But this IS a very competitive market....This is a good article on some of these markets with a huge supply:  https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

Here is our Disney home:

Last year, we primarily received guests from Airbnb and, this year, from Booking.com. This is our only property where we could never 'climb up' the rankings in VRBO, so we received 0 guests from VRBO. This still puzzling.....The direct bookings from repeat guests are slowly growing.

Booking.com is hard to deal with, but we seem to get good overseas guests that stay for longer.  

Great occupancy rate, congrats! We get a lot from booking.com, but there’s also a lot of strategic bookers, who will book multiple places and then cancel at last minute, it screws everything up with the other OTA’s algorithm. 

 Nice place! Something I don't understand after I looked at your listing - how are you fully booked with no vacancies in September and October? September is a super dead month, maybe even deader than May. 

 Also how are you doing the reviews, it feels like it's set up with people mentioning all three names that seems uncommon?

i mean it's working obviously but just felt like the reviews were dictated but maybe that's just me?

[Alex F.]

yes - sep/Oct are the slow months but Florida is still has a lot of tourists....but less than usual.  This is where being near the top of the  rankings makes a huge difference.  Last year we struggled a bit in the slow months then did everything we could to tweak our listing - listing description, experimented with titles etc.  .  Here is a good discussion in supply and demand and these areas that have 1000+ listings.  No one searches last page 2.

https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

As for the reviews - we write them manually and guests when they review us often attribute the property  to who they chatted with if they had a question or issue.  It's usually me or my wife there reply on weekdays then on weekends usually our son.  But it varies ....we have a first read first reply type of arrangement....

[Nathan M kiefer]

Quote from @Alex F.:

yes - sep/Oct are the slow months but Florida is still has a lot of tourists....but less than usual.  This is where being near the top of the  rankings makes a huge difference.  Last year we struggled a bit in the slow months then did everything we could to tweak our listing - listing description, experimented with titles etc.  .  Here is a good discussion in supply and demand and these areas that have 1000+ listings.  No one searches last page 2.

https://www.adventuresinairbnbs.com/p/help-i-stopped-getting...

As for the reviews - we write them manually and guests when they review us often attribute the property  to who they chatted with if they had a question or issue.  It's usually me or my wife there reply on weekdays then on weekends usually our son.  But it varies ....we have a first read first reply type of arrangement....

 Great article to read.

[Kyle Mccaw]

@David Sanders I own a 5 bed in Windsor Hills. $4k/month is an easy target. Be sure to theme the bedrooms and convert the garage to something more functional. My garage is a commercial grade arcade. But many people opt for a theater room. 

[Trent Reeve]

Quote from @David Sanders:

Quote from @JD Martin:

Quote from @David Sanders:

I'd really like to hear from people who have a 4 bed pool house near Disney if $48K per year net revenue is realistic. By net I mean take home pay after direct booking fees, including cleaning. But not including utilities, HOA fees, etc.

I do plan on doing moderate, functional theming and a game/theater room. Looking at areas very close to Disney, like Windsor Hills, Emerald Island, or Indian Creek, etc. $4K per month is kinda my magic number for making this work for me, so I'd love to hear your specific numbers. Feel free to PM numbers to me if you would prefer.

 No. Not right now at least. I have a 4/3 3k SF pool home on a lake 10 minutes from Disney in 4 corners, and I would be in serious sense trouble right now if I needed this house to net anything, much less 4k per month. My gross monthly average since November is about $3k per month, and my net outside of my mortgage is about $2k per month. September and October were total duds and last summer was only about 50% booked. 

We have serious oversaturation here right now. If you pay all cash you might see $2k per month net for the year. If you have a note you will be subsidizing the house right now. Ok if you use it sometimes, like I do, but not very good as an investment. I am across from the new Windsor Cay resort in Cagans Crossing for reference, and I have a nice place with all 5 star reviews.

 Sorry, "net" was a poor choice of word. I meant net revenue, not net profit. But I think you still answered my question, I belive you're annual revenue is roughly $36K? 

$4K per month is what I anticipate my monthly expenses to be, with mortgage, utilities, etc. I'm just looking for a break even property.

 also take into account taxes. You are likely going to pay around 12-14% of your gross rental sales in taxes.

[Andrew B.]

It depends which resort the property is in, if you are using it yourself over peak seasons, and if it’s a townhouse or single family house. There’s lots of variables, but the key thing in the Orlando market to get a good algorithm going with the OTAs, to maintenance strong occupancy rates.